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<  9 1/2 und 1200 Sport  ~  9 1/2 Engine rebuild and other stuff

corsacorsaro
Verfasst am: 24.10.2018, 7:35 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 04.01.2007 Beiträge: 1653 Wohnort: Elm-Asse
spitze

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VesaII
Verfasst am: 9.3.2019, 21:39 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Stage I is all most done and concentration is on exhaust side cause of Erland at topplocksverkstan.se. He analyzed 9,5 engine with Pipemax software http://maxracesoftware.com/PipeMaxPro400.htm And found exhaust is limiting RPM and HP. Too small valves or too little lift.

I vill not change cam or bigger valves, but try to compensate a bit. So i sent exhaust tubes to Mr. Zombie and once more he did some magic on them. Off with sharp edges next to heads, Catalysator bucket off (makes unwanted pulses) and he even made a beautiful adaptor for more noisy SC-project Titanium Oval muffler.
Reason for choosing it is seen after 1:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCq2f5ONVc&t=122s
And just in case i ordered a new air filter to ensure there is no unnecessary restrictions on intake side either.

Original with sharp corners


Smoothed

CAT removed

Perfectly fitting adapter

Visual test



As final touch tubes will be painted with TechLine paint to keep heat in, exhaust gas speed up and me hopefully sweating less on hot summer day.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 18.4.2019, 20:52, insgesamt 7-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 13.4.2019, 18:52 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Cooling system filled with Evans and engine heated up

As you know Evans does not boil, is not corrosive and do not age.
https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/benefits/

Engine sound without noise killer is gorgeous but infernal, at least in garage. Was forced to put killer back, but will sure try without sometime Wink


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 20.6.2019, 20:01, insgesamt 5-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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get.freaky
Verfasst am: 13.4.2019, 22:33 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 15.04.2018 Beiträge: 131 Wohnort: NDS
Hey,

looks nice,

also Carbon cab on the Ducati Exhaust....

KR
Oliver

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In meinem Herz schlägt es V2

Corsaro 1200 Compatto
9 1/2 Track
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 14.4.2019, 9:12 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
get.freaky hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Hey,

looks nice,

also Carbon cab on the Ducati Exhaust....

KR
Oliver


Thanks

Yes it looks even better i imagined first. Shape is great and carbon visually fits together with carbon rear mudguard. I also glass bead blasted muffler so welding is now less visible and no shiny points left. Bike is washed and all plastic parts treated with Autoglym bumper & trim gel.

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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 19.4.2019, 20:41 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Inside of air box it looks like this

Original plastic ball joints are crap.



After replacing them with joints from Weber carburetors some adjustments was needed and i prefer most high vacuum. This why i completely shut down those valves we normally synchronize intakes with and balanced them 'mechanically' with this rod (arrow) It does not alter TPS value.



When installing blow by valve it is very important to have both holes centered. Valve should be very easy to put in place. I also used silicone sealant to ensure airbox - cyl head connection. New model of Blow by valve highly recommended.

Ps. new air filters has big tolerences. Be careful not to warp them when installing. Use lubricant.

Pps. airbox open or closed does not alter vacuum numbers.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 19.8.2019, 21:52, insgesamt 7-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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Ebi
Verfasst am: 20.4.2019, 11:39 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 19.11.2010 Beiträge: 1205 Wohnort: Backnang
Zitat:
Original plastic ball joints are crap.


Jepp, bought better ones 4 years ago for a few euros at ebay:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Winkelgelenk-DIN-71802-CS-M-5-Neoprendichtung-Rechts-o-Links-Made-in-Germany/250769023334?hash=item3a62ffa166:g:SZMAAOSw8cNUSJVm

BR,

Ebi

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ich bin alt - ich darf das
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 20.4.2019, 21:29 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Winkelgelenk-DIN-71802-CS-M-5-Neoprendichtung-Rechts-o-Links-Made-in-Germany/250769023334?hash=item3a62ffa166:g:SZMAAOSw8cNUSJVm

Good place for you guys. For me 27,50e for shipping Wink

Anyway, right hand threaded was easy to find on local bearing shop. Problem is left hand version. They are not common.


And then to other subject.

Was riding today and made a few observation.

Without db killer It is loud but not unbearable. On short trips loudness is fun but on long trips you get headache.

Balancing throttle valves properly is even more important than i understood from beginning. last summer i had bad stalling problem in town. Engine stopped on every red light when on idle. Exhaust is modified for better flow now and it may help, but did it alone solve these problems, i doubt.

Many people have been talking about stalling issue and they even blame neutral switch for it, but i bet stalling is very often cause of unbalanced throttles.

I still have issue with lean mixture and cause of this it pops in exhaust when engine braking and idle is fluctuating, but not stalling anymore even once. Will visit dyno in near future. Here in Helsinki this time (Samin Autopaja)

And Paioli strut has at least too weak spring. Need to consult Motoville.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 19.8.2019, 22:00, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 8.6.2019, 8:20 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Yesterday had a first real life test with fuel economy on travelling speeds 80-130 (mostly around 100) Result was 12,6/2,2=5,7L / 100km

This without final dynorun for last modifications and abit rich front cylinder, especially on lower rpm (high vacuum)

Not too bad so far Wink

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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 15.8.2019, 12:12 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Hello all

Dyno run II done at www.ajbike.fi/en once more and now we got 112,74hp/8060rpm and 103,79Nm/7229 rpm

This makes 130Hp and 120Nm on engine, which is quit impressive as it is only 10hp and 4Nm short of Corsaro figures.
https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycles-specs/moto-morini/moto-morini-corsaro-1200-2007

Even more impressive it is if compaired with starting point
https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycles-specs/moto-morini/moto-morini-9-12-2007

Torque increased thru whole range. Most noticeable is still the driveability. It is much more easy to drive at low speed like when on roundabout. This cause of linearity and torque increased below 2500. Lot of effort was put to get both cylinders even and it sure made difference. Over 3500 it is like electric engine, so smooth. And when running really sporty with higher rews, it puls like never before. Simply more fun.
Even sound of engine is different now, more quiet. This is cause of increased efficiency. More energy is converted to movement and not to noise, like with Harleys Wink

Only thing we did not get fixed with even AFR, is jerking at city speeds (<2500 and even gas). It is not too bad, but still this is not best engine to drive slow, i guess. Jerking might be ignition issue or characteristic to engine. High temp extra jerking is solved as this area we did now with 90+ engine temperature.

Mapping is done with full power AFR as we did not have time to build 14 AFR economy area. Still it is not too bad but around 6L/100 on highway. Will do some research with lambda later on…

We also noticed AFR drops to 16 on idle if TPS goes below 2,4 as this area is not visible on our current XDF files. There must be hidden values as engine does not stall. Wonder if Ebi could help us with this matter? 2.0 must be there and maybe even lover values if they not have one common value? My TPS is correct when engine not running. It drops when engine starts.

Also it would be useful to have one more high rpm range. Is it possible to add row 8750 on XDF?

Attached two pictures. Full gas and 10deg pull as example of what kind of precision we get with dyno.

Still I am not completely happy with mapping. There are some minor thing that can be improved and achieving better fuel economy when on constant speed. So there will be dyno III run in next summer i guess Wink

It is not possible to get 100% result with borrowed map, but maybe 80-90% as every engine is unique cause of tolerences. But if you like to try mine, just tell me. Best result you get if you have same Bosch injectors, but it might be useful even when scaled down for original injectors. This map should, at least, be a good starting point if you have improved flow and plan a dyno session, which you should if you want to make it as efficient and fun as it can be.



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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 22.9.2019, 21:29 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Enabled Lambda yesterday

Today had a short sporty trip about 150km. Apr. 40% of trip was driven with 4th and 5th gear. Still consumption was around 6L/100km. Most interesting thing is, it did not made driveability worse a bit. I guess this is cause of very even AFR on both cylinders.

Original is OZA341-BB1/18 but plan is to replace it with a more recent one LSH-24 (LS 3805) like Moto Guzzi guys have done. http://www.guzzifan.com/guzzi-tuning-codes-infos-tips/

NKT model is same on both
http://www.sparkplugsrus.com/ekmps/shops/speedway/resources/Other/3.pdf

Update:

Bosch looks very convincing. Idle is more even now. Which is not big surprise as without lambda AFR is around 16 when TPS 2. (Engine off TPS is 2.7) Otherwise i do not notice any difference to 'lambda OFF' setting but on gas station as consumption seem to be less with ON setting.



Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 27.9.2019, 21:09, insgesamt 6-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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morluk
Verfasst am: 23.9.2019, 20:57 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 22.07.2013 Beiträge: 141 Wohnort: Langquaid
Hi vesa
I m very interested reading your attempts and successes in adjusting the small 1200 engine. My Scrambler engine has still some minor items to improve.
I have no problems to run between 40 and 55 km/h with 3rd gear or 60 km/h with 4th gear. That means 2000 rpm. One thing I still try to fix is a torque drop at 2500-3000 rpm. Also the Engine takes time to get idle rpm when it’s hot. It starts always immediately but the cold engine is at 1300 rpm immediately the hot engine takes 15 seconds.
The worst thing is the consumption of 7-8 l/100km sometimes almost 9L on country roads ( no highway). As I don’t have your Equipment for me it’s not possible to do the same than you.
I hope you share your results so I can lower the fuel consumption to 6l.
As I understood the type of the injector nozzles I essential to do this. But does this work with the ital-web Scrambler map ?

Heinz
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 23.9.2019, 22:30 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
Hello Heinz

My map is best with same injectors and lambda i use and similar mods done, but it should work reasonably well with original engine too when scaled 10% down. I can send this to you if you like to test. But you need to have everything in good condition and well tuned, like throttle bodies balanced and functional Lambda. 'Ultimate Scrambler' map you use, was base for my map.

Just send your email address as privat message.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 26.9.2019, 21:12, insgesamt 4-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
Vesa
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 24.9.2019, 17:16 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 140
...and use some cleaning chemical like Forte to ensure fuel system and combustion chamber is clean.
https://www.forte-nwe.de/shop-privat/1-benzin-reiniger/produktanwendung-fuel-system-cleaner-advanced/
https://www.forte-nwe.de/shop-privat/1-benzin-reiniger/produktanwendung-fuel-emission-improver/

Very curious to hear your results with my scaled for original injectors map Smile

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Br,
Vesa
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