1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

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VesaII
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Registriert: Dienstag 24. April 2018, 14:36

Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

First impressions after two days riding:
Bike is running very well. Crisp as hell. Fuel consumption for 295km was 17,5L.
100km easy 80km/h, some 100km aggressive driving on curvy country roads and 100km on highway 140km/h constant. This with last year mapping and without lambda. Lambda is moved to front cylinder as Morini did later, but some AFR tuning is needed before it can be enabled. Two of them will be fitted later with instructions supplied by Brmoke.

About valve job: Exhaust has original iron guides but fitted with bronze K-lines. Intakes are bronze (Freccia G11308) Tolerances are as tight as possible.
Seats are Ampco45 with best possible valve job with combined radius and angled seats. Seats are lifted up as much as possible to lift up valves to increase compression. Cause of this valve shims are quite thick. Exhaust channels are polished with Dremel to minimaze heat exchange and contamination build up.
Reed valves is installed instead of blow by valve plug and original breathing tube is blocked but drilled with 1mm hole for ventilation. This mod will remove pressure from crankcase and create slight vacuum when pistons go down and looks like this does improve fuel economy.
This all should eliminate oil from intake track and burnt oil residuals on intake valves, especially on front cylinder.

Now as engine and injection is mechanically in top shape, it is Interesting to see how much power i can get an with how good fuel economy, which is my main target. Minimizing jerking is also important goal. Like to know how smooth this engine is possible to tune.
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Zuletzt geändert von VesaII am Montag 26. Juni 2023, 09:17, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Now also lambda enabled and without any mods on mapping and still no problems. Cannot say if improvement was cause of movin it to front cylinder or is it all work done combined. It just works like charm. No shooting to intake or no sudden stalling or anything, just running great.
Just some typical jerking between 2k-3k which i try to locate with borrowed Innovate tool. Have no idea how connect it yet. Need some studying...
One minor issue is visual. lambda will be repositioned 45degrees back.
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Zuletzt geändert von VesaII am Montag 17. Juli 2023, 16:20, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von GTVili »

I'm having the exact same problem, so I'll be interested to hear the developments....
VesaII
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

As most of us... ;)
2k-3k is always problematic area for Morin cause of design of heads. It cannot be made perfec as designed power area begin from 4k. We can only try to minimize problems below and first, in my opinion, is to move lambda to front cylinder, as Morini also did lately. Second is fixing the play on throttle body and valve job if needed. After that the mapping and better injectors. Preferably modified Bosch type like mine. And reed instead of blow by valve works great.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Minor updates...
Last week i was on Alastaro track. On way there speed was quite constant on country roads 100km/h and consumption was 8,5L/1,66=5,12L/100km.
If driven constant 80-90km/h it sure would be under 5l. Quite good i think. Wonder if someone have got better economy and how much?

First day on track consumption was 8l/100 and second day 9l / 100km.
Reed valve removed. Reason for this is oil when it builds foam and come out thru blow-by valve. Need some more research with this.
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Zuletzt geändert von VesaII am Freitag 14. Juli 2023, 22:02, insgesamt 4-mal geändert.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von Falkone »

VesaII hat geschrieben: Sonntag 9. Juli 2023, 22:47 Reed valve removed. Reason for this is oil when it builds foam and come out thru valve. Need some more research with this.
How much oil do you have in the engine?

Moto Morini said you have to lower the oil level at racetrack to prevent foam oil...
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Viele Grüße aus Dresden
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Makes sense, but actually i removed reed before track already. Looks like 1200 engine quite easily makes shake of it, even on low levels of oil...
Maybe i just put reed valve on this short breather tube and let original system take care of foaming thus oil coming up to this small box inside air filter box.
Forgot to mention... Even contamination issue on front cylinder intake valves, mostly on right side is not solved. It still is building up.
And my oil consumption is quite high still. Will test different brand and race type of oil 15W60 https://www.fettekno.fi/en/lubricants
Zuletzt geändert von VesaII am Dienstag 11. Juli 2023, 08:45, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von GTVili »

VesaII hat geschrieben: Sonntag 9. Juli 2023, 22:47 Minor updates...
Last week i was on Alastaro track. On way there speed was quite constant on country roads 100km/h and consumption was 5,12l / 100km. If driven constant 80km/h it sure would be under 5l. Quite good i think. Wonder if someone have got better economy and how much?

First day on track consumption was 8l/100 and second day when speed increased 9l / 100km.
Reed valve removed. Reason for this is oil when it builds foam and come out thru valve. Need some more research with this.
Dieses Jahr kann ich das Fahrrad tatsächlich richtig nutzen. Der Verbrauch war bisher recht hoch...
Am Wochenende gab es eine kleine Tour (~170km) mit zwei Personen. Wir sind hauptsächlich auf der Autobahn gefahren, mit einer Geschwindigkeit von 120-130 km/h... so ergab sich ein Verbrauch von 8,2 l/100 km...

Ich möchte hinzufügen, dass meiner Meinung nach auch der Werkszähler täuscht...
VesaII
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Had a chat with only local Morini certified engineer. He agreed issue with oil on intake path can be cause of installation or wrong type of valve stem sealings, as we know originally Morini has different type on ex and intake seals. Still debris on intake valves is usually cause of ignition issues he said. Wonder if Corsaro guys have same problem or is it only our issue? And how it is for Benedikt with Corsaro ignition map on his dual lambda modified bike? Do you have dirty intake valves on front cylinder and clean rear?
http://ital-web.de/forum/userpix/1733_S ... 1038_1.jpg
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Initial AFR measuring done, but could not sort out why OBD connection is not functional. Something with Innovate LM2 as cable do work with PC
Annoying thing is that i could not log TP and RMP on same log now. Help much appreciated...

First font cylinder had two areas no good. 1500-2000 too lead (16) and 2500-3000 too rich (8)
Did put 5% more and remove 7% from rich. Rear had same rich area. Fixed that with some 5%.
Then turned front lambda on and it was working as it should on front, with some fluctuation, but it made rear much too lean (22) Cause of this i moved lambda back to original position and now rear ok. Positive issue is even better fule economy now, i guess :)

But lamda do cause some extra jerking and it even had engine to stall once on trafic lights by turning engine too lead. Strange behavior sometimes.
This did not happend when lamba was on front.
Luckily bluetooth dongle should come soon and i then can use my phone to show TP values.
Best solution is to have two lambdas, but not yet...
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von jogant »

Hello

The software of the 5am ECU on motorcycles whether Morini, Ducati, Guzzi ..., unfortunately do not have an OBD2-compatible interface

Greetings Josef
VesaII
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

Hi
You have right but device manual tell it can communicate with KWP2000, which 5AM also does:
'A utility for reading/writing Magneti Marelli IAW5AM firmware - GitHub ... The 5AM uses KWP2000 (ISO 14230) and UDS (Unified Diagnostic Services..'
Will ask https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/
To be continued...
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von Falkone »

i had in the past the LM2, too.

And i used the analog input for tps and rpm. It works really nice...
My problem was that the LM2 was restarting and delating the file after a few minutes. Useless for me.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von VesaII »

How did you connect the analog part?
Zuletzt geändert von VesaII am Mittwoch 9. August 2023, 11:10, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
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Re: 1200 Engine rebuild and other stuff

Beitrag von Falkone »

VesaII hat geschrieben: Dienstag 1. August 2023, 08:00 How did you connect analog part?
sorry.. i saw this post very late.
The LM2 had a separat socket for that.
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There is a cable with open ends in the case from the LM2.
In the past, i connected the TPS cable and one igition coil cable in the near of the ecu connector.

It was very easy and it worked fine for me.
The operation manual is download able in the web.

Hope i could help...
Moto Morini Shop: www.bessergemacht.de
Spezialteile für unsere 1200 Morinis.

Viele Grüße aus Dresden
Falko
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