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<  9 1/2 und 1200 Sport  ~  9 1/2 Engine rebuild

VesaII
Verfasst am: 3.5.2018, 16:48 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Hello

I am one of the offers for recent ital-web crash and needed to register once more. I am also a new 9,5 project owner and started a new thread in while this site was down. There you find some background for project and nice pictures in two separate threads.

http://www.morini-riders-club.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

I am sorry for my language as my English is not very good and German does not exist. Any way i try to make my message clear and please ask if you feel to.

There is many things going on with my dear 9,5 but also some real issues found and biggest at the moment is piston rings. Did buy a complete C piston set, but rings included were already loose as new!!!

Cylinders are not worn at all but they are 107,04 which is rather B than C size. This will not explain huge end gap with rings (0,5 and 0,7) though.

Now i try to find rings that are of proper size, but have not find any yet. Second alternative is to use rings of company Total Seal. They offer very nice rings but they are 1,6 thick and originals are 1,2mm. So machine work is needed and i prefer to have a good quality of it and 0.03-0.04 fitting to pistons. Preferred endgap is 0.25-0.30. Have not found any in neigborhood who could do it.

Any ideas are highly appreciated. Will also modify my 'old' comments as something changes or new knowledge appear. Aim is collect a short and easy to follow best practices for you to replicate or rather develop further.



Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 1.7.2018, 8:48, insgesamt 9-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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Twinfan
Verfasst am: 3.5.2018, 18:18 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 04.01.2007 Beiträge: 1134 Wohnort: 75056 Sulzfeld Stammtisch Odenwald
Hello, a very good address is:

http://wahl-spezialkolben.de/en/

you can contact english

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Gruß Gerhard

Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat's gemacht.
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Ebi
Verfasst am: 3.5.2018, 21:54 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 19.11.2010 Beiträge: 1103 Wohnort: Backnang
Hi Vesa,
fine, that you found the way back to ital-web spitze.

I hope, that you present your engine/cyl head fine tuning also over here.

As Gerhard wrote, Klaus Wahl is a very good address for your issue.

Good luck

Ebi

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ich bin alt - ich darf das
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 6.5.2018, 18:50 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Thanks guys! Waiting for answer from Spezialkolben.

Got flyweel off today. Frightening operation. Lot of heat and torque applied and resulted a big bang. I was sure it got broken but no. Everything ok Smile

And now balancing came in to my mind. Wonder if it is possible and a good idea to balance this kind of reciprocating assembly?

Cam timing is other thing. As i recall Sbeziale people did not do it, as values was ok after chain change. Wonder how near values was..? Have anyone here adjusted cams here and how and where have you got parts like offset keys needed? I have had no luck to find them and it would be nice to know that it is not needed at all...

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Br,
VesaII
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 9.5.2018, 20:58 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Thank you once more. Spezialkolben is a very special company, they really seem to know pistons and they even have special price for Morinists as one of them rides a very good looking Corsaro.

Will send pistons after DLC coating is done. Klaus told me they will optimize pistons in diffferent ways, not just putting in new rings. I am very curious to see results.

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Br,
VesaII
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norbert
Verfasst am: 9.5.2018, 21:36 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 05.01.2007 Beiträge: 3268 Wohnort: Lübeck
That´s why Erhard suggested Wahl Wink

Good luck with that engine!

norbert
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 26.5.2018, 6:38 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Got some pictures of http://martelius.com/en/ceramic-coatings/ and how they have applied coatings. Next step is CBC2 coating by my self. Piston crowns, combustion chambers and valves on that side and intake partly on bak side.

So far used coatings are of TLTD, TLHB, TLML and PISTON TOP GOLD by https://techlinecoatings.com/tech-line-coatings/hi-performance-coatings/internal-engine-coatings/

Always very helpful Martelius guys also added lambda nuts on both tubes for proper dyno tuning.

Just wonder which is the best and most easy way to retain original finish on exhaust tubes, which seem not to be polished but rather done with coarse steel wool...? Not manually by hand, i hope. Have already tried soda blasting and different caustic and acidic chemicals (Harpic power plus was the most efficient though. Inside and out) and got them clean but not more shiny.


[img]


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 7.6.2018, 8:14, insgesamt 5-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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Ebi
Verfasst am: 26.5.2018, 19:06 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 19.11.2010 Beiträge: 1103 Wohnort: Backnang
Zitat:
Not manually by hand, i hope.


Hihi, of course by hand Laughing. Some years ago I did such crazy work with a cleaner for stainless steel. This gives a perfect, shiny surface, but lasts some time Rolling Eyes. Afterwards I decided not to clean my bike at all.

regards
Ebi

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VesaII
Verfasst am: 26.5.2018, 20:06 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Ebi hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Zitat:
Not manually by hand, i hope.


Hihi, of course by hand Laughing. Some years ago I did such crazy work with a cleaner for stainless steel. This gives a perfect, shiny surface, but lasts some time Rolling Eyes. Afterwards I decided not to clean my bike at all.

regards
Ebi


I refuse to do it manually Evil or Very Mad Need to find out something...

Will blast middle section with glass and see what more is needed. If it goes bad, it anyway is not too much visible.

First sections are also a test, as they should not get blue anymore after coating made. This why it is worth some effort, but still rather not manually...

This would be nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHoWoRQ-9kI

Before that tubes need to be clean. First tubes are only glasblasted. Middle section is glass blasted and glas bead blasted, which made them a bit more shiny, but not much. Plain glass bead blasting was no good alone as it seems to 'hammer' some of dirt in to metal instead of removing it.



Next step and tools used. Very easy. Orange one was no good.



This might be good enough or maybe some coating for retaining finish and rejecting the dirt...

But first my jig and TIG welding by Zombie Steelworks




Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 20.6.2018, 21:10, insgesamt 7-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 27.5.2018, 7:52 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
One more idea…

While resolving issue regarding temperature & altitude sensor, which actually was just a cut of wire, i began to think injectors. And cause of this article and figure 3 http://performancefuelsystems.com/InjectorSprayStyles-TechCorner.htm consern arouse: do i have best suited injector for 4 valve head, or just a basic one narrow squirt type.

Original injector is labeled M93100001400 which is same as Ducati use
https://www.amazon.com/Ducati-Injectors-46lbs-Direct-IWP-069/dp/B07646D69G which actually is of type Pico 480cc - IWP069 with one hole.

There is multihole replacements Webers, even advertised as a direct replacement, but without any doubts ECU should be modified accordingly eith TunerPro or rather properly tuned in dyno.
http://www.webcononline.co.uk/library/wcimg/PR%20Sheets/Webcon_Pico_Injectors.pdf
https://www.bikesportdevelopments.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=IWP189


New Bosch EV14 is still the injector to have as per Finjector guys. It has new and modified type of tip thus exeptional atomization and linear behaviour. http://www.finjector.com/verkkokauppa/eng/ev14_12_ohm_400_cc_c_jetronic_o_o_34_mm_lyhyt_pico-p-450788-185/

While visiting the shop and after very informative discussion they supplied me a perfectly symmetrical pair with measured 432cc output and identical output with short opening time asswell. 432 should be more than enough even for Corsaro with std 3bar fuel pressure (by Bitron EPPT-L80) and 77% duty cycle, at least by theoretical calculation:
https://www.deatschwerks.com/fuel-calculators/fuel-injector-calculator.

Basically it should only needs some 10-15% upscaling in ECU mapping to get running.



...

And now initial hypothesis about atomisation is tested. There was two original 'garden hoses' and my new injector in the middle. Result is again quite self explanatory. Two pictures of test video included.




Just waiting for a real life test on dyno and on the curvy road and on a gas station.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 18.6.2018, 19:48, insgesamt 21-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 31.5.2018, 21:13 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Next subject in thread is mappings. Postman did bring me USB cable for ECU connection and now i need to collect some more understanding about this subject as well. Cable is: https://www.ebay.de/itm/292378900403

With this cable, which i hope to be ok, and IAW5xReader_V0.27 i can download mapping in binary format. Then it will be opened in readable form and tables will be copied to dyno guys own software as Excel tables with simple copy operation, edited according to dyno results and copied back and saved as bin and put back in ECU

Ebi has collected a lot of good information here about maps, and TunerPro http://www.tunerpro.net eats BIN files and XDF files are found here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/ (5AM_Morini_Sport_GP_95_Scrambler_V1.22.xdf)


Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 10.6.2018, 20:33, insgesamt 4-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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VesaII
Verfasst am: 6.6.2018, 20:35 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Some pictures of almost finished heads. Mostly self explanatory. Intake is not enlarged but just smoothed, sharpened and fitted with intake manifold and all of this is quite good looking for my eyes.





Zuletzt bearbeitet von VesaII am 24.10.2018, 11:40, insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet

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Br,
VesaII
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get.freaky
Verfasst am: 7.6.2018, 7:31 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 15.04.2018 Beiträge: 63 Wohnort: NDS
VesaII hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Some pictures of almost finished heads. Mostly self explanatory. Intake is not enlarged but just smoothed, sharpened and fitted with intake manifold and all of this is quite good looking for my eyes.






spitze spitze spitze spitze spitze
Looks GREAT !!!!!!

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In meinem Herz schlägt es V2

Corsaro 1200 Compatto
9 1/2 Track
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Ebi
Verfasst am: 8.6.2018, 19:34 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 19.11.2010 Beiträge: 1103 Wohnort: Backnang
Zitat:
Ebi has collected a lot of good information here about maps, but where to get tools needed for conversion and maybe even editing.


I use Tunerpro with XDF's, slightly different to the "public" owns. Depending on your map choices, I can sent you the corresponding XDF's.

You can copy the tunerpro table content to Excel and vice versa, but the values will not make much sense to the dyno guys.

I did it in this way:
Get lambda or AFR results of the dyno runs and calculate the percentage you want to increase or reduce in the different rpm and TPS ranges. Then apply this percentage to the fuel values in the tunerpro tables for basic fuel map (front cyl) and delta fuel map (rear cyl). You can select individual cells in the tuner pro tables and modify these cells by means of a math operation e.g. multiply with 0.95 if you want to reduce by 5%.

You can also smooth the map in the graphical view, this is a very nice tunerpro feature for big boys who like to play Laughing.

br,
Ebi

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VesaII
Verfasst am: 8.6.2018, 20:33 Antworten mit Zitat
Morinisti Morinisti
Anmeldedatum: 24.04.2018 Beiträge: 54
Ebi hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Zitat:
Ebi has collected a lot of good information here about maps, but where to get tools needed for conversion and maybe even editing.


I use Tunerpro with XDF's, slightly different to the "public" owns. Depending on your map choices, I can sent you the corresponding XDF's.

You can copy the tunerpro table content to Excel and vice versa, but the values will not make much sense to the dyno guys.

I did it in this way:
Get lambda or AFR results of the dyno runs and calculate the percentage you want to increase or reduce in the different rpm and TPS ranges. Then apply this percentage to the fuel values in the tunerpro tables for basic fuel map (front cyl) and delta fuel map (rear cyl). You can select individual cells in the tuner pro tables and modify these cells by means of a math operation e.g. multiply with 0.95 if you want to reduce by 5%.

You can also smooth the map in the graphical view, this is a very nice tunerpro feature for big boys who like to play Laughing.

br,
Ebi


Yes please. I sure have use for XDF's for the mapping i put in ecu. This dyno guy is true professional with 10 years behind. He has even created own software to iterate whole map according to different dyno results. http://www.aj-bike.fi/information.php?info_id=4 Sorry, no foreign languages. Google translator may get something funny out of it...

Still i guess my goal is not very common as first goal is to get maximum economy, as i like to beat everyone else in this subject Wink and same time it should be smooth and snappy when needed.
This cannot be too easy to achieve, and maybe this asks for different mapping per gear. Will see...
Will not put too much effort on full power, as it anyway will be higher than original, which already was enough for me.


Got also mail from Klaus Wahl. DHL had delivered pistons today, and he asked the size of bore. Incredible, maybe they can even fit and gaps! http://wahl-spezialkolben.de/en/ truly is a company with quality of service in blood.

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Br,
VesaII
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