Paioli Federbein

[VesaII]

Initial adjustment done for 'sag' with 1/4 rule and my 'dry' weight 80kg and it is almost too much for the original spring. Comp is turned off (20 clicks) and rebound is in the middle 10 clicks.



Hopefully after 1-2 weeks adjustment continues in real life situation.

You tube was usefull once more, but feel free to comment as i'v never done this...

[Ebi]

Hi Vesa,

tell me about the 1/4 rule and I tell you about my 1/3 rule

Spring looks very compressed.

BR

Ebi

[VesaII]

Hello Ebi

Total movement is 17cm so 1/4 of it is 42,5mm. Accordingly 1/3 sag is 56mm

Hyphothesis is that when i have more weight on like bags, then it goes toward 1/3 and is still within limits.

Yes spring is quite compressed and need to be checked, or my hyphothesis falsified

[Ebi]

Hi Vesa,
I found this description helpful:

Man nimmt die Maschine vom Ständer und drückt seitlich vom Tank stehend mit beiden Händen kräftig von oben auf das Spritfaß – am besten kurz vor der Sitzbank, etwa dort liegt meist der Schwerpunkt der Maschine. Beim kräftigen Drücken sollte die Fuhre nun sowohl vorn als auch hinten einigermaßen gleich weit einfedern. Wie gesagt: gleich weit, nicht gleich schnell. Denn meist spricht die Telegabel wegen der manchmal recht hohen Losbrechkraft zwischen Stand-und Tauchrohr ein bisschen schlechter und damit langsamer an als die Hinterradfederung. Federt jetzt die Maschine vorn und hinten gleich weit ein, hat man wenigstens schon mal die Gewähr,dass die Federung vorn und hinten einigermaßen harmoniert

If the balance is quite ok, you can start adjusting rebound/compression. If the rear spring is too weak, e.g. bike is out of balance, you can compensate this a little bit with higher compression adjustment (hardness) of the rear shock, but this is just a bad compromise.

br

Ebi

[VesaII]

Thanks Ebi

Tried but could not properly test this. Tried even when standing on footpegs. Need to revisit this.

Anyway today i adjusted rear once more as it was not correct but too tight. Now rear sag is adjusted 42,5 (=1/4) and with old std spring i got 10mm free sag. Front has 20/20 and is not adjustable, yet.

https://www.motorcycle.com/how-to/mo-wr ... ension-sag

Ebi, how is your 1/3 values ?

[VesaII]

Lifted the rear even more.

Now it has 7mm own sag and 30mm more with me on. This is good point to start to lower the rear end, which is putting more sag thus altering the front end angle.

Been listening Dave Moss a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3flKxf41U This guy really knows suspension. Highly recommended.

Ebis test indicated rear to be softer than front. Need to consult MotoVille...

[VesaII]

Changing oil and O-ring was not enough. Rebound did not came along. Having it shut completely, did not have almost any effect.

Cause of this i was forced to find a shop where they have a shock dyno and one best situated for me was www.ttmfactory.com

Company owner Timo put Paioli on dyno and found it to be very soft, but he found construction of strut to be actually quite good and with all adjustments needed. So there is no need to buy a expensive replacement for street use, as it is possible to improve this strut with only 160€ + freight of investment.



Worst part was return side and we adopted Öhlins kind of curve for it (blue line below) to keep it comfortable.



Cylinder is honed, piston reshimmed and shock filled with best oil for application.
Now we really have rebound. It immediately makes big difference when clicking out or in.
I often tune it while riding, just for fun

For next season spring will be changed to 10% stiffer to achieve something like 10 + 25mm sag.

I guess not many of us have changed oil in strut, although it should be done something like once in three years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYyH32u0JIc

It is good idea to do both in same time. Shimming and basic maintenance.

[VesaII]

Hello

One more iteration of Paioli is ready. Original damping is marked with red line and black is last summer version. Green is 2020 version as we noticed rebound was too strong but we need more on comp side. Now it should be more easy to adjust with both comp and rebound valves.

New Öhlins spring (100e) is 5mm longer and 10% more stiff. Could be 15% or maybe even 20% Especially if you weight more than me (80kg)

[VesaII]

We are coming closer...
After two more iteration with Timo Paioli is now running well on all surfaces. Bad and good asphalt and on track. Rebound is perfect with good reserve for oil aging (10 clics out) and you can turn it out a few clicks for gravel. Comp is also firm but not too hard on cruising speed, but rather comfortable on small movements. Only comp adjustment could be a bit more tight as it is not all needed when riding on street but could be a bit more tight on track. Will fix this to next season.

Final conclusion: Paioli we have is as it comes from factory and not tuned to Morini at all. It is much too soft and if tightened with com adjustment, it only becomes too sudden and do hit on your back. Spring also is too soft for 80kg person. You can check this by closing the rebound and there still is none.

Luckily this can be fixed without replacing the whole strut and should be done same time as you order basic maintenance for your shock by info(at)ttmfactory.com and should absolutely be done.

You can even ask Timo to make track oriented of it, which is my previous 'track' version (on picture with black), not the last one. Last version has less comp.
Blue=2020 version

[VesaII]

How to know if your rear shock is in need of maintenance and tuning?
If you push bike in the middle it should act symmetrically like this.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AvmtFtbY1WJ-hNVCS98 ... w?e=7Wkaed
If not, then service offered by www.ttmfactory.com will improve your comfort and performance a lot as 9.5 rear strut obviously is not adjusted properly for application from factory as it is too far off from optimum even when new (aka maintained)

[VesaII]

Cannot find anything to complain anymore. It took five iterations to find good, or rather great, allaround settings for Paioli. Timo did phenomenal work with fine-tuning the main piston by enhanced slow-speed damping and reduced progression. Adjustments to compression knob significantly improved its responsiveness, particularly at slow movements. The bike now inspires confidence, begs to be pushed harder, and is remarkably more comfortable than the original on all surfaces and riding styles. 

Key Improvements:

• Main Piston Tuning (done last summer): Enhanced slow-end attenuation and less progression.
• Compression Knob Fine-Tuning: Optimal compression for various riding styles.
• Increased Confidence and Comfort: Cornering with ease and push bike's limits to next level. Bike do not hit you on back same way as original Paioli does if excessive comp is used to compensate poor main damping.

Compression Settings explained / Idea:

• Purple: Original Paioli with fresh oil
• Yellow: Road Use ? (Compression 5 clicks open)
• Black: Track Use ? (Compression fully closed)
• Red: Sporty Road Use or riding with a heavy passenger ? (Compression 1 click open)
• 10 open makes rear too soft, which decreases confidence 

Note: The lower part of the picture is a rebound. 7 clicks out. 
Recommendation: This modification is highly recommended for those seeking a transformative riding experience
For More Information: https://www.ttmfactory.com/yhteystiedot/

[VesaII]

I've been sporty road riding with compression setting 7 clicks out recently, and it's been working great, even with a 50kg passenger (not too sporty riding). The bike feels firmer than ever, and not generally loose and harsh on bumps like it was initially. This setting worked well even for light gravel rides. On the track, I used 6-5 clicks out, and it performed well with room for further adjustment for more load/speed and reserve for oil aging. I'm very pleased with this setup. Thanks for your help, Timo!

[VesaII]

And new 10% stiffer Öhlins spring has label L5119 on it..